The Money Market Playbook – a conversation with Mike Reed, Franklin Templeton

00:00:00: ChatGPT gave AI its consumer-facing moment.

00:00:03: And so everyone knows what AI is, blockchain.

00:00:06: it's operational guts which is so boring and like so few people actually think about it I don't know that we're ever gonna get our consumer facing moment.

00:00:16: We might have had it with the NFT craze but iI don't think were ever going to get that moment.

00:00:21: So those of us in the know are just gonna at some point wake up and smile on faces.

00:00:29: Welcome to Inside Digital Assets, the podcast about the future of capital markets.

00:00:35: Tokenization digital assets and the technologies that power them.

00:00:42: welcome to a new inside digital asset podcast.

00:00:45: And I'm here today with Mike Green from Franklin Templeton.

00:00:48: Hi Mike

00:00:49: Hey good to see you.

00:00:51: It's amazing to have you in our podcast.

00:00:53: we gone back quite a while, some time now and crossing past then-and-then.

00:00:58: So it's very good to talk today about what you're doing at Franklin Templeton?

00:01:03: What your plans are on the digital asset side.

00:01:06: really looking forward to that

00:01:07: same.

00:01:08: I remember The first thing we met was when we were on panel together And afterwards i reached out to him like We are kindred spirits.

00:01:18: Yeah,

00:01:19: definitely.

00:01:20: The pleasure is all on my side and you actually just told me that you have started at Franklin Templeton in the mailroom quite a couple of years ago.

00:01:30: How did you end up from the mail room to a barrier ad now as head of digital assets client engagement?

00:01:36: That's frankly Templeton.

00:01:37: Well I mean to be fair...that was like high school and internships And stuff Like that.

00:01:41: so my first job Was In the Mailroom My very First job at Franklin Templeton, they gave me a stack of envelopes and a stack things to fold stuff into the envelopes.

00:01:50: And so from there I landed in a program that company has called The Futures Associate Program where you rotate around and try other thing for like fresh out-of-college recent college grads .And i did that for A year and half.

00:02:07: I rotated through PR equity trading sales ,and then landed in fixed income pretty much until I started doing this, maybe the one thing that was a little different about my career path is over the years.

00:02:23: I worked with some people who were really creative and wanted to try new things and do new things.

00:02:28: so while we weren't fixed income you know?

00:02:29: i worked in the group that was focused on high-quality fixed income agency mortgages...that kind of thing.

00:02:34: um And as kind of like on the side We were like hey here's an interesting pocketed capital.

00:02:40: Let's see if we could do something there.

00:02:41: Like for example We started looking at microlenders, so people who do peer-to-peer lending like real small loans.

00:02:49: And we were wondering if there was a way that we could start to drift some of those loans into larger fund structures?

00:02:55: So we started engaging these FinTechs digitally native originators' loans and see if they're ways where you can buy individual whole loans instead package deals by individual whole ones off their platforms.

00:03:06: We built our own models using AI machine learning in kind the twenties All around that.

00:03:13: So like, it's nothing to do with traditional fixed income and the stuff we were doing as our day jobs.

00:03:18: but was this real interesting side project That we got work on?

00:03:23: But I remember It is about fifteen years ago now And i've told a story before The person who my boss at the time Roger Bayston.

00:03:31: He came onto our trading floor one day.

00:03:34: My son played Call of Duty And earned Bitcoin As a reward.

00:03:39: Does anyone know what bitcoin?

00:03:41: And nobody knew what Bitcoin was, and we all started looking into it.

00:03:46: Started learning about blockchain when Ethereum launched.

00:03:50: then also like smart contracts the idea of programmable money to people in fixed income is that for me was an aha moment because fixed income It's all about cash flows and directing those cash flows.

00:04:01: here you could programmatically put it Into an asset how the cash flows would be move.

00:04:07: So it was something we were real passionate, interested about.

00:04:09: And then in the late twenties Roger approached Jenny Johnson who's our CEO Who used to actually run operations at our firm and he said To her hey these are distributed ledgers.

00:04:22: I think there is Something We could do here to improve The overall efficiency of Our business.

00:04:26: so she gave us some budget and we Were kind Of off to the races and dedicated towards this effort

00:04:31: from that on.

00:04:32: Very interesting how you ended up in that space.

00:04:36: You then launched very successfully Benji, one of the first products in this base and given that they are a large institution on traditional side wasn't it hard to bring into that new fancy space where no-one had all answers?

00:04:51: Well I think it was thoughtful methodical way we did it.

00:04:56: like.

00:04:56: real secret to our success is that Jenny used to run ops.

00:05:02: How many CEOs on the planet care about ledger efficiency?

00:05:05: I mean, the answer is close to zero.

00:05:07: So having someone in our corner who was at the very top of the company who understood the importance of that technology really helped us to pursue a lot of efforts and so internally when we would get pushed back from people didn't understand it like what we worked on.

00:05:22: So Benji tokenized money fund.

00:05:25: one of the first questions we got was how much Bitcoin is going to be this money fund?

00:05:29: And the answer, of course is zero.

00:05:30: But these are questions we were getting.

00:05:33: so internally it was a lot of that.

00:05:35: A lot of like describing to people what's happening education at the most senior levels in the company and as soon as people got they snapped right away.

00:05:43: Externally We worked very closely with our regulators.

00:05:47: So in super collaborative way instead just launching product telling them deal We were talking to the SEC on a very frequent basis, educating them in all things blockchain.

00:05:59: Why we wanted do it?

00:06:00: What the safeguards where in place?

00:06:02: how are thinking about securities on chain?

00:06:04: because Benji said digital asset security is not like a different kind of stuff like an NFT or something like that.

00:06:10: so I was thinking about security issuance on-chain and we partnered with.

00:06:14: then we set up webinars gave him a hotline when they could call any time ask questions.

00:06:19: people say during Gantzler's tenure.

00:06:21: I mean, we launched during that time.

00:06:26: So it was really that collaborative approach That i think helped us to work with some of the external folks.

00:06:33: so Really?

00:06:34: It was a combination Of like internal and external folks.

00:06:38: but The ideas education Collaboration those were kind of our north stars.

00:06:45: And where there ever moments Where projects would almost have gotten cancelled or closed down shutdown entirely.

00:06:55: Well, I mean there's some things like...I wouldn't say we ever got that close in that way.

00:07:03: But they're definitely things where people and digital assets who are native to the space don't think of.

00:07:09: how would a larger corporation think about these things?

00:07:13: Okay so now you have be a wallet provider.

00:07:16: So what does it look like?

00:07:17: Think about custody right?

00:07:19: You remember SAP-one twenty one which basically said that if you custody crypto assets, you had to one-for-one them with dollars on your balance sheet.

00:07:26: Which was essentially like a freeze rate for the whole industry.

00:07:29: So now we have this Benji token That were providing custody.

00:07:33: For how does that work?

00:07:36: Yeah You know.

00:07:37: so things Like that or Things that We have to think about How do we pay gas fees?

00:07:42: How Does that Work?

00:07:43: stuff like that Or Things that we Had To kind of Sort Through but I don't Know Saying Like Did The Whole Thing Ever Get Killed?

00:07:48: i don't know If i'd say we ever got that Close

00:07:51: And you then started with a money market fund, an industry that is now... A lot of people in the space would say oh!

00:07:56: That's one of first use cases.

00:07:57: A very logic use case makes a lot sense to do that.

00:08:02: Has it always been the Money Market Fund?

00:08:03: You were looking at as First Use Case or are you're looking at different types offerings?

00:08:09: Well so remember when we start interest rates where zero.

00:08:13: So nobody was looking for money funds And in fact, it was money.

00:08:16: funds were like loss leaders for a lot of large asset managers and no one cared about money funds at all.

00:08:21: When we launched part of the reason that we launched with a Money Fund construct because this is super heavily regulated We launched government money fund which is different than traditional money fund.

00:08:30: There's real strict rules on how their portfolio has to be run.

00:08:33: So you know Government-Money Fund environment No One Cares About.

00:08:37: Actually when we launched No One Cared And then rates started to kind of creep up.

00:08:45: We had some interest from crypto native investors who were like, we want a place to park our cash.

00:08:49: that's not at bank because the FESC insurance isn't big enough.

00:08:54: So can we invest in your product?

00:08:55: Because you've been into space and conferences so things are very organically getting money in.

00:09:01: it wasn't until much later when we saw launches of large competitors in this base where interests rates went higher people started saying oh yeah money funds.

00:09:10: what a logical first step.

00:09:13: you know, it's not the greatest idea to be able to do that.

00:09:18: But it was just this thing where we were like let's do this because its difficult and kind of see where we get with it in terms of next step things.

00:09:29: I think there is a lot people on market exploring different things but as we think about what s next?

00:09:34: We always want to think about if they are someone who actually asking for it.

00:09:38: Is their demand use case or this?

00:09:40: Because we could launch coolest thing ever?

00:09:43: But if no one's actually sponsoring it or buying, they're interested.

00:09:45: It doesn't really matter.

00:09:46: even some of the things like private credit right now is pretty popular in that digital native space and there have been Some products.

00:09:53: I've raised a ton of money but i think traditional asset managers.

00:09:57: when we think Of how people are holding these assets We think about People making an investment And then going to buy this and hold for A long time.

00:10:04: Watch my portfolio grow over Time and dollar cost average you know, a lot of crypto native investors are using some of those private credit products and like yield looping strategies.

00:10:13: And things that nor traditional investors don't even think about.

00:10:16: so the buyers of those assets right now aren't traditional investors who just think it's cool to own in token form.

00:10:24: they're fine with their traditional rails.

00:10:25: It's really people want.

00:10:26: use them all these different ways.

00:10:28: then he starts getting into questions okay well if its an evolved as permissionless vaults.

00:10:34: Now I have this permissionless asset.

00:10:37: But I have to know my customer because i'm an issuer of security, so how does that work?

00:10:40: So it starts get really money soon and fast in terms.

00:10:45: what you want do next.

00:10:46: but I would say like Money funds are more a utility something people can use in their space To move money around.

00:10:56: the other assets for us are either trading tools or long term investments.

00:11:03: How big is the money fund business in your traditional business.

00:11:06: Is that like large parts?

00:11:10: Yes, we're one of the larger managers for money funds in this space because traditional treasures want to use money funds to hold cash.

00:11:19: so the money fund industry is massive and more a large player in it In this space... And actually you've seen some crossover now because a lot of those traditional folks and traditional providers are like how do we offer?

00:11:36: Again, you have to think okay do your wallets and if you don't have wallets who's going be a wallet provider?

00:11:41: How does that look?

00:11:42: how does it feel.

00:11:43: How did this interact with the systems?

00:11:45: like again when we launched Benji When first started showing people in traditional space In some ways was worse than what already existed because You can not hold any of your traditional system so totally live outside of your ecosystem And thats not great.

00:12:03: We knew really early on.

00:12:06: If you just offer it as a token, like that's cool and all.

00:12:09: But you have to offer added functionality or else nobody is going want use it.

00:12:12: whether the added functionalities higher yield lower cost Or transferability.

00:12:18: where he can instantly send this money toe other known entities they're like atomically.

00:12:24: we Have a feature on our asset called intraday Yield.

00:12:27: Where traditional money fund whoever owns the funded at market close That gets the yield for Those funds pay out usually monthly or quarterly.

00:12:37: And that's again, it's pretty standard for us with Benji and we have several different constructs here.

00:12:43: We actually accrue yield to investors by the second?

00:12:47: And we pay seven days a week three hundred sixty five days per year.

00:12:50: So holidays weekends all of it.

00:12:53: you get that income in the form of an air drop That occurs overnight into your wallet and everybody gets the yield proportional To how long they held it which means that if I send you the asset you know, two in the morning on a Sunday it becomes yours.

00:13:06: But then also you begin accruing yield for the day at Two In The Morning On A Sunday.

00:13:09: so that end of the day when that air drop of income occurs I would get two hours of income.

00:13:14: You Would Get Twenty-Two Hours Of Income.

00:13:16: Now All of a sudden For Like Trade Finance International Deals We Know The Bokeh Crypto Trading Occurs On The Weeknd So Collateral In That Space Collateral And Traditional Markets repo like all these kind Use Cases Start To Open Up Because The Asset Is The Aset.

00:13:32: Maybe I should have said this from the start.

00:13:34: We don't run an off-chain book of records with our tokenized money funds, everything is authentic on chain.

00:13:41: Most of the other products out there actually do have off-chain Book Of Records which means they don't really reconcile until the off-Chainbook opens up, which is market hours for us.

00:13:50: because the asset is the asset and there's no other Book Of Record running that asset if it trades to you at two in the morning or Sunday It authentically settles and becomes yours Which means you can start to layer all these other functions onto it, which again makes this ideal asset for a lot of global treasures.

00:14:09: I mean the benefit are our assets like very logic and it makes a lot sense to offer tokenized money.

00:14:14: market funds and distance through dense verability function is one that's convenient for players.

00:14:21: where do we see most traction currently?

00:14:23: Who buying it?

00:14:25: who are the biggest?

00:14:27: let us say Oscar

00:14:29: Yeah.

00:14:30: So I would say in terms of who's actually putting money into products, that is actually happening for us quite a bit with exchanges and exchange related ecosystems.

00:14:40: we've broker deals with multiple large exchanges including OKX and Binance where people can hold our asset as collateral off-exchange wallets And then the balances are mirrored on exchange.

00:14:54: so if buy Benji tokens, post them to this wallet and then the balance is on exchange.

00:15:03: I can use it as collateral.

00:15:05: And unlike a stable coin that earns... Unlike Bitcoin Ethereum has very low-to-no volatility.

00:15:12: so you know It becomes again A great asset for collateral For those providers?

00:15:18: So That's been the bulk of the uptake.

00:15:19: right now Has been there.

00:15:21: i would say if You measure by interest an inquiry Then we're getting way more On the traditional side.

00:15:29: The crypto natives understand it.

00:15:31: They get and we talked to these hedge funds, And they're in immediately.

00:15:35: like our hit rate is pretty close to a hundred percent for people It's all reverse inquiry People calling us and people are really interested In.

00:15:43: on the traditional hedge fund side?

00:15:44: People Are thankful that were in this space or like okay great We know player here.

00:15:48: now we can start to trade into space so That's been great as well.

00:15:51: but the traditional players are Like yeah there like wait a minute.

00:15:56: I usually had.

00:15:57: If I'm running a large company with multiple operational companies, all those operational companies keep cash and money funds.

00:16:03: if i want to move money from one to another...I sell out of a money fund!

00:16:07: I transfer the fiat over..and then re-invest in a money funding.

00:16:11: And it's some instances that can take three business days?

00:16:14: That full time is not working for them but someone else.

00:16:18: With our asset they could instantly swap between.

00:16:24: Again, it becomes a slight pretty ideal asset.

00:16:27: So the uptake on the traditional side is pretty fierce right now.

00:16:31: Yeah and those traditional side so does large companies with their Treasury departments.

00:16:37: are they ready to use or easy for them because can just sign-up but have custody wallets?

00:16:43: With you guys.

00:16:44: how would they enter this space?

00:16:45: we kind of break that world out into two groups.

00:16:48: there's The Want Wallet and The Have Wallets And definitely more of those folks fall into the wallet side of things.

00:16:56: Most of corporate treasury money that moves around is actually managed through Treasury Management platforms, where they log in to a platform and all of the different options that they have.

00:17:06: most of those providers don't have Wallet Info.

00:17:08: there's couple who are working on it.

00:17:10: we don't Have Wallet.

00:17:11: They Don't Have wallet infrastructure right now.

00:17:13: so as That evolves because their customers Are asking for So As That Evolves It's going To be A natural Natural Place-to-place Assets.

00:17:20: So the wallets would sit not with the companies, the corporates and their tertiary departments but rather sit with the Treasury Management Platforms?

00:17:28: Kind of depends.

00:17:30: With Benji for example we actually allow third-party wallet.

00:17:32: so if you buy Benji it will give you a Wallet.

00:17:37: But If You Want to Put It in A Different Wallet We White Lest The Wallet Address And You Can Transfer There.

00:17:41: So kind Of Would Depend On What The Treasurer Would Want To Do.

00:17:44: Yeah

00:17:45: Okay Understood.

00:17:47: Now When we look at how the space involves, right?

00:17:51: You said it's like looking at different opportunities out there but money funds currently still the biggest one.

00:17:56: How do you assess market overall?

00:17:59: is a big pull into tokenized asset space to feel that does its focus on money funds?

00:18:06: Do you see interest outside as well quite heavily?

00:18:12: two things.

00:18:13: One would be like utility function and one will be investment functions, so from a utility standpoint almost every large bank around the world is looking at tokenized deposits right now because quite frankly I think they're afraid of losing their deposit base.

00:18:27: but there are questions that come out.

00:18:31: it's a tokenize deposit from Bank A worth the same as one from Bank B. is there some kind of credit assessment that takes place?

00:18:39: Is their centralized clearinghouse for all those tokenized deposits.

00:18:43: That's something they'll have to be worked on and sorted out, so a lot people working on these things right now And other utility functions like I mentioned with our product figuring how to incorporate them in everyday flows.

00:18:58: It's one thing being work done crypto itself, and we've obviously experienced massive market pullback in the space.

00:19:09: We actually made a purchase of an asset manager quite recently which was their public.

00:19:13: two fifty digital um And you know for us we look at that space say That is a brand new asset class that most investors don't understand where I mean You know as well as i do like Winners picking winners and losers matters so much In this space because The outcomes are So binary.

00:19:31: it's Like liquid venture almost.

00:19:33: And so if you can partner with somebody who's really good at active management and really good in picking those winners, You could have a lot stronger performance.

00:19:41: getting market beta is cheap.

00:19:43: we have Bitcoin ETF easy PC.

00:19:46: We haven't theory of ETF EZET.

00:19:49: we actually have a multi-coin ETF Easy peasy which invests in multiple coins like a market cap weighted basis?

00:19:55: We have XRP Zee Which isn't excerpt even though they had so easy to their Solana ETF.

00:20:00: all those are very, very cheap.

00:20:02: So you can get beta pretty cheap.

00:20:04: it's the active component which I think is really going to drive a lot of people's performance going forward and that's where we see a lot Of interest right

00:20:13: now.

00:20:14: Yeah okay Very interesting.

00:20:15: Now looking at the regulatory landscape being based in The US but also Being active In Europe How do You assess the Landscape?

00:20:23: Are We moving fast enough on On the Regulatory side of Things To Actually Push Innovations Through?

00:20:30: Yeah, it's without calling anyone out.

00:20:32: It's definitely like idiosyncratic the way regulators have responded in and are responding there.

00:20:38: some regulators who approach us and say what do you want?

00:20:41: The regulations to look like?

00:20:44: And then there's other regulators who said this kind of is What it Is.

00:20:48: I went to Paris blockchain week This year but i was one last Year.

00:20:52: i might actually seen You There.

00:20:54: and uh i remember i Went To an event at the Ministry Finance and the French or talked about this idea around how regulation had to be aggressive in the space, because post-World War II basically the US set up global banks and their favor.

00:21:12: And so there was all of the banking regulations.

00:21:16: kind of works that way currently.

00:21:19: He was commenting.

00:21:20: he viewed it as like next phase where everyone could even level a playing field.

00:21:27: That was the most aggressive.

00:21:29: I'd heard a regulator talk about these kinds of issues, maybe ever publicly.

00:21:33: so i think it really depends on where you are as to how the regulators are approaching things.

00:21:39: we have product like live digital asset securities that are native on-chain in europe.

00:21:46: We have one out of the cssf regulator at ucidsproducts .We have our us One out of scc ,we Have won in singapore at the mas on the British Virgin Islands.

00:21:57: So we kind of blanket The Globe with these constructs, and like you said in that because of that We end up talking to every regulator out there And Like I said it varies a lot but There's A LOT Of Government Bodies That Are Trying To Figure Out What To Do Because i think Something We Learned.

00:22:16: But A Political Statement To Say That The Current Administration In U.S Is More Favorable Than The Previous Administration Towards This Space.

00:22:24: And what we found during the previous administration was that, you know.

00:22:26: The US agencies are set up to protect us investors U S businesses but when we found was that by pushing all of that activity offshore or the previous Administration was left with this kind of weird thing That was happening in the u s where?

00:22:40: You had us investors participating and unregulated non-us environments things like that.

00:22:46: as the regulation has started To come into sweeping regulations seen here at the u.s We've seen a lot of crypto businesses return to the US or start up in the U.S over the last year and half, which has provided real boosts.

00:22:58: that industry and then globally regulators are kind of moving alongside some of them as well.

00:23:04: so I think there's a lot change to come.

00:23:07: There already have been a ton but more to come from global regulatory standpoint.

00:23:14: When you look at the regulatory space where traditional financial institutions are active and you look, say rather more under-regulated DeFi space.

00:23:23: And being active with your product or let's say you're being bought by players from both sides?

00:23:31: What is your view on how those ecosystems merge?

00:23:35: like do they merge Or will at some point one prevail over another?

00:23:42: Well, I mean think about like dark pools in traditional finance right?

00:23:46: Like those kinds of things where you're participating environment or he might not know who's on the other side.

00:23:50: The trade that is existed for quite some time but You know.

00:23:56: so like permission to defy something That could exist or does exist But like good could proliferate i think For folks like us.

00:24:06: Let me give you an example here.

00:24:07: Here's a gate gating item for Us.

00:24:09: we have A digitalized security that We issue Which means that we have to know who owns it.

00:24:14: We always had to know, who owns at every step of the way.

00:24:17: if I send Benji To a wallet address like a smart contract?

00:24:23: That's A d-five vault.

00:24:26: Who owns It At That Point?

00:24:28: The Vault Is Smart Contracts.

00:24:30: Smart Contract is not a business or it's Not a taxable entity right Like it's not a traditional, so like who owns it at that point?

00:24:40: That's pretty important thing for us to understand is if the author of The Smart Contract.

00:24:45: Is this person you sent in knowing that he can participate different ways and these are things we think about and wrestle with quite bit were super fortunate have really strong legal and compliance personnel Franklin Templeton Who Are Really Good At Working With Regulators and figuring out where we can participate in it.

00:25:06: And also, where we shouldn't be participating.

00:25:08: so like all of our partners go through a super robust screening framework because there's a lot of balls in the air right now

00:25:23: around the top.

00:25:26: I think it is very interesting to see how the future evolves, we both are not knowing where it will go but great also be able shape that to some extent.

00:25:36: Maybe as last question i could continue talking with you for quite sometime.

00:25:43: Let us maybe wrap up looking more into the future.

00:25:48: We have massive developments over the last couple of years, as opposed to previous year's in digital asset space.

00:25:55: If we believe that might continue for coming years where do you see us going into twenty-thirty and thirty five?

00:26:02: How would the market look like in terms of digital assets adoption or maybe use cases on digital assets?

00:26:08: what do you think?

00:26:09: So I'd say two things around there.

00:26:11: The first is even with a near term AI and blockchain are so interrelated And I think people don't appreciate that at all right now.

00:26:20: The compute necessary for AI, like it can only be enabled with blockchain over the long term.

00:26:25: So if you believe in the AI narrative You have to believe in a Blockchain narrative.

00:26:29: They're just related Like that.

00:26:31: so i would say That's one kind of future state thing we Think about.

00:26:36: But I think the ultimate Future State We are going To get is that People like My wife For example She such a patient person and lovely, great.

00:26:51: And um...and a great partner but she doesn't know anything about blockchain She's like you're the Blockchain Person.

00:26:59: You Know Enough About It.

00:27:01: The future safe for this is where someone like my wife logs into her bank account and she does not even notice A difference.

00:27:07: it all just operating in background.

00:27:09: When we start to think of these assets as completely fungible They are money.

00:27:17: I think that's the future state we're going to get.

00:27:20: Uh, you said th four years for thirty f it somewhere kind of in t where there is a huge ramp?

00:27:30: I mean infrastructure is so uh like displacing tha take a long time but i gonna get into a place wh all operating beneath their.

00:27:47: So we don't need to do that podcast anymore.

00:27:49: That's because everyone knows what or doesn't need To know, but since I teach last time it's just

00:27:54: so like that's the trick of at all for those Of us who are in this space is that?

00:28:00: Like chat GBT gave AI its consumer-facing moment and so on.

00:28:04: Everyone knows a hi is blockchain is operational guts Which is so boring Yeah, and like so few people actually think about I don't know that we're ever going to get our consumer facing moment.

00:28:16: We might have had it with like, you know the NFT craze but Like i don't think were ever gonna Get that moment.

00:28:22: so those of us in the know are just gonna someday wake up at some point.

00:28:25: Wake Up and Just Have a smile on Our faces.

00:28:27: That It's all.

00:28:27: yeah

00:28:28: no one knows then.

00:28:29: Yeah oh i will say it's like The back end Of financial Infrastructure You Are Working On And No One Really Cares About The Back End Usually Right.

00:28:35: So yeah

00:28:35: Just Make Your Work

00:28:36: Yeah.

00:28:38: But sorry, I have to do one follow up question on the AI thing.

00:28:41: and when you're saying like AI in blockchain is so interlinked In terms of who believes that AI needs to believe it in blockchain?

00:28:47: In terms for computing power Can they elaborate a bit about what does this mean or how that's linked?

00:28:54: Think about things like decentralized compute.

00:28:59: And i think obviously has to happen more robust way.

00:29:05: all of the record keeping and everything that goes on, registering it will have to be done using blockchain because I just don't think traditional systems are powerful enough.

00:29:15: So again these two things completely interlinked people do not appreciate.

00:29:20: this is weird.

00:29:22: you see like there's a theory right now in market lot money was chasing cryptos now chasing AI markets down But that's why I have confidence in these markets.

00:29:33: going forward is, at some point it all has to rebounce.

00:29:36: It's the traditional picks and shovels narrative you know?

00:29:40: That we saw on the dot-com craze in late nineties with a dot com bubble bursting...I lived in Silicon Valley when that was all going down!

00:29:48: And i'm seeing this happen again where there are consumer facing stuff people are very excited about but ultimately whoever builds the best infrastructure is the group that's going to win.

00:29:59: And so when we talk to people about what blockchain, Devon... We're on give or take ten-to-twelve blockchains mostly public but also private blockchain as well.

00:30:11: one of the reasons why all those block chains I mean part it like meet your clients where they are.

00:30:15: you want be in ecosystems whatever a part because he wants to spread your bets out.

00:30:22: I'll give you a real world, like we launched Stellar was our launch partner and it's been great ecosystem for us spread sellers so cheap.

00:30:30: The people who work there are great.

00:30:32: they're busy that people awesome.

00:30:33: the partnership People are top tier.

00:30:35: So really good partners For some of the businesses out There.

00:30:39: We participate in Our demand That were on Stellar Others Demand that Were On A Different Blockchain And Over time that will probably all coalesce to some winners and then there will be a bunch of chains that nobody really uses anymore.

00:30:57: So anyway, sorry I just

00:30:58: went away.

00:30:59: No yeah very interesting.

00:31:00: thanks a lot Mike.

00:31:01: it was a pleasure to have you here in our podcast so thank you for all your thoughts.

00:31:06: Thank You for sharing them And talk to you soon.

00:31:08: Absolutely great see again.

00:31:10: This

00:31:11: was Inside Digital Assets A joint project by Biggs Digital Anceturion.

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