Europe’s Post-Trade Problem: A conversation with Matthias Voelkel [EN]

00:00:00: Lidia: Welcome to Inside Digital Assets, the podcast about the future of capital markets tokenization, digital assets, and the technologies that power them. We talk to people driving this transformation about real world projects, digital innovation, and one big question, what will the capital markets of tomorrow look like?

00:00:24: Lidia: Welcome to our podcast, Inside Digital Assets, the podcast where we talk about tokenization, digital assets, and the future of capital markets. My name is Lidia Kurt, and I'm the CEO at BX Digital and Seturion. In this podcast, we talk about the people, the stories, the companies behind tokenization, behind digital assets.

00:00:46: Lidia: We gonna look at companies who build products in the space. We're gonna look at technology providers who actually have offerings out there already. Today, however, is a very special episode. I have Matthias Voelkel here. Matthias is the Group CEO of Börse Stuttgart Group. We as Seturion are part of the Börse Stuttgart, and that's why we said as a first episode, let's deep dive into what we are doing, what the Börse Stuttgart is thinking of, this new market, digital assets, and why we are moving a step into that direction.

00:01:17: Lidia: So Matthias, a pleasure to have you here.

00:01:20: Matthias Voelkel: It's, it's, it's my pleasure, a privilege, if you will, and I really look forward to our conversation. And I was thinking, why aren't you actually talking in English, right? And not in Swiss German or German, as we will, I think, elaborate on a bit.

00:01:37: Matthias Voelkel: Seturion is a truly European venture and it has a European ambition and it is basically contribution to a joint, European capital market. So hence in English.

00:01:48: Lidia: Very good point. Thank you, Matthias. Now you are not only the CEO of the Börse Stuttgart Group, you know capital markets very well inside out. You have been at McKinsey, you have been a partner at McKinsey.

00:01:57: Lidia: You are leading the capital market practice there. You know that very well. What we are doing at Seturion, you know it from the traditional world and you know the digital space as well.

00:02:09: Matthias Voelkel: Yeah. It's true. I hope I know a thing or two about the market. I keep learning. I mean, frankly speaking, I learn a lot from you guys and I think it's a highly interesting industry.

00:02:25: Matthias Voelkel: So every morning I get up, I'm very happy that I'm in financial services and capital market infrastructure, specifically.

00:02:34: Lidia: Thank you for being here. And let's first start with talking about the Börse Stuttgart Group. We are a very innovative exchange group, having business in multiple pillars.

00:02:46: Lidia: Maybe you can start there. What we are doing here in today's world, I—

00:02:50: Matthias Voelkel: I mean, first of all, I do really think, of course we are biased, right? It's our group, so we have a positive perspective on it, but I personally really think we are very innovative. I think in many areas we're cutting edge, in some areas, even bleeding edge, that's a bit the DNA of our group, as you know.

00:03:10: Matthias Voelkel: So what is this group? When we talk about Börse Stuttgart Group, we're talking about the sixth largest exchange group in Europe, right. We operate in multiple European countries, actually across Europe, and we have eight hubs across Europe. We're talking about different businesses. So to start with, and as you mentioned, we have our capital markets business and that capital markets business comprises exchanges in Germany, Börse Stuttgart, in Sweden and in Switzerland. It also comprises a broker, which is active across Europe, commodities and data. So that's one strategic pillar. And then there's the second one, which is Börse Stuttgart Digital. This is where we provide crypto infrastructure to banks, to other financial institutions which want to offer cryptocurrencies to their customers.

00:04:02: Matthias Voelkel: We also, by the way, operate our own crypto retail broker. And lastly, that's the third pillar. This is tokenized assets, and this is our newest pillar, although we've been thinking about it and strategizing, as we all know. We now said, okay, let's make a splash, right? And really come out with an offering, which is Seturion and BX Digital, which you lead.

00:04:27: Lidia: Börse Stuttgart Group has been very early on on the crypto side of things, having a very good market timing, market momentum, that has been achieved there. Now looking at the tokenized asset side, when did you realize that that is something that is coming? That we have momentum here as well? That we need to have an offering here.

00:04:47: Matthias Voelkel: That's true. I mean, when it comes to crypto, we started our activities and very customer and market focused and very agile already in 2019. And that was, by the way, prior to my arrival. And over the past years, we really scaled it from a venture to something which is quite sizable.

00:05:08: Matthias Voelkel: So among the European exchange groups, among all traditional European exchange groups, we operate by far the largest digital business, so that is one thing. Tokenized assets is something—when did we realize, or when we said we should do something—of course, we were observing and the market was getting there, but the market was not mature yet.

00:05:32: Matthias Voelkel: And I think it's very important when it comes to innovation to be there when the market takes off. You want to be prepared. This is what we are. You wanna have the technology, you want to be regulatory sound, tick mark, tick mark, tick mark. And then you jointly, ideally with market participants, and that's what we do. Then you jointly conquer the market and the idea of our tokenized assets venture and business is: there will be a new capital market infrastructure globally and also in Europe, and we do not want to be on the receiving end. We want to shape it, want to shape it together with our customers.

00:06:09: Lidia: You are mentioning it already, that we are trying to tackle something which is currently being done in another way.

00:06:16: Lidia: We have been working on that for the last couple of years, so it's not something that we just had the idea of, we went public, although only recently with Seturion, but have already an infrastructure in the background that works. But can you deep dive first a bit on which problem we try to solve. What is actually the problem in today's capital markets?

00:06:36: Matthias Voelkel: Well, that's a very good question because I think sometimes when it comes to providers of market infrastructure, that's a question some people tend to forget, right? They're very much in love with their technology, very much in love with the licenses, et cetera, and they don't really ask, what problem am I solving. If you don't solve a problem, right, there is no reason for you to be there.

00:06:55: Matthias Voelkel: So the problem we are solving here, and if you look at it from a meta perspective, is European capital market is fragmented. It is very fragmented. You have basically 25, 27 national silos, all with incumbent infrastructure, digital, electronic, but not digital in the sense of tokenization.

00:07:20: Matthias Voelkel: And now we all know from a European perspective, not only is the capital market in Europe fragmented, it's also much smaller than the US, right? The US is three times bigger, the capital market, and it is way, way, way less fragmented and in order for Europe to thrive, and I think there's a lot of things where we need to tackle our homework and need to do our homework, right? Capital market, a high performing capital market is absolutely of the essence and not a fragmented capital market. So this is fundamentally one contribution to do.

00:07:38: Matthias Voelkel: Now for market participants, they say, okay, this is very conceptual, right? So we want to basically shape the future of capital market infrastructure to ensure that there's a true European, horizontal wide capital market infrastructure as opposed to the national silos. Okay? This is right from a conceptual standpoint, but what is in for the customers, right? What is in for the banks, for market participants?

00:08:14: Matthias Voelkel: And here, if you look at it right now, what happens on the settlement side of things right now? Settlement is slow. It takes on average two days. I mean, think of a money market fund, right? You won't have it available already before two days, right? That's a long time and it's not very efficient. Secondly, it's costly. It is very costly, right, to settle, particularly when it comes to cross border settlement, which is natural because you have so many players in the system, and the system is so vertical. It's so natural, it's so national. So hence the problem we're also serving is that of availability and it's that of efficiency, and that's a very relevant problem of course for capital market because at the end of the day, efficiency, if something is efficient, right, then of course it is also cheaper for market participants and we need to get there. We need to get there in order to make the European capital market more performing.

00:09:04: Lidia: I think that's a very interesting point. And on the cost topic, there has been a study published very recently on that exact topic, which shows that apparently in Europe we pay up to 1 billion more per year compared to the US just due to this fragmented capital market infrastructure. And I think that's a very important thing to change, that we have a level playing field.

00:09:31: Matthias Voelkel: It's about that. And 1 billion, I mean, first of all, it's a pretty sizable number. And secondly, what does it mean when you say we pay more? At the end of the day, who pays more is the end customer, is the investor. It's the private investor, right? And Europe, when it comes to private investment, is really lagging behind other parts of this planet. Some parts of Europe, say Sweden, are faring quite well. Many countries in Europe, including for instance Germany, they're really behind. Retail participation is way too low, and one reason is of course that it's too costly.

00:10:05: Matthias Voelkel: Taking down cost means more attractiveness when it comes to retail investment, when it comes to retail participation, and that has two extremely important effects. One is more capital for growth and innovation in Europe, right? And this is something we really need to get our arms around. We have been sleeping. I mean, there has been so much complacency on that front. And the second thing is wealth creation, social security. We all know demographics. We all know how important it is that people participate, that people participate in the wealth creation of the European economy, right. And that is right now not enough the case.

00:10:46: Lidia: So now understanding the problem, we all have an issue with that. We have a fragmented capital market infrastructure, meaning that we have national silos, so-called central securities depositories, CSDs, which are monopolies in every country. Which is something we are all as investors, but also as banks, as financial institutions, somehow suffering from.

00:11:10: Lidia: Now turning a bit to focus on the solutions for that. With Seturion, we developed a pan-European settlement platform that tackles exactly that challenge, that we are moving to a unified settlement infrastructure away from national silos, but really to a market and an industry solution where everyone can participate, also cross border. Can you deep dive a bit more on what the idea behind Seturion is?

00:11:41: Matthias Voelkel: Yeah, sure. Very, very happy to indeed. We have, call it, little islands, a very national market infrastructure. I mean, it's just a result of history, right? And they've been serving their purpose quite well. But national infrastructure is of course the opposite of a European capital market.

00:12:04: Matthias Voelkel: Europe is successful if there is free movement of goods, of labor, right, but also of capital. Europe is successful if there is real competition between European players because competition means better pricing, better services for customers. We as a group, we see ourselves as a true European group. We don't have any monopoly, et cetera, right? We want to compete and we want indeed a level playing field, right?

00:12:24: Matthias Voelkel: So basically moving from a national capital market to a European or more horizontal capital market, that is the idea. Moving away from little points to a market where the best one or the best ones will thrive in the best interest of customers.

00:12:52: Lidia: Building the best infrastructure of tomorrow. It's exactly what we are trying to deliver at Seturion. And we decided to do that on the newest digital infrastructure by using DLT technology where it's necessary, where it really brings an added value. But we also decided we wanna build an infrastructure that integrates very seamlessly into today's system.

00:13:10: Lidia: So that's why we said we focus on the settlement part. So we are not building a new silo, including trading and settlement, and bringing an infrastructure of the Börse Stuttgart just in digital form. But we decided, okay, let's move into the post-trade business. Let's build a settlement platform and let's have other trading venues connect.

00:13:30: Lidia: So we are obviously connecting to this new settlement platform, Seturion, we'll come to that in a second, but it's a very open infrastructure, meaning other trading venues can connect. Can you tell us a bit about this idea that we developed? In the sense of that it should be an open industry solution.

00:13:48: Matthias Voelkel: I mean, first of all, you put it extremely well. So I'm not sure I can say that better in my words than you did in your words. One aspect I would build on and add: when you said the new technology, right? If there is a certain infrastructure, a certain status quo, right, usually that does not change. It only changes if there's a window of opportunity and the window of opportunity is open now for political reason.

00:14:08: Matthias Voelkel: There is now a push for a capital market union. A lot of people talked about it. It wasn't, honestly speaking, not really high on the political agenda. Now people in Europe have woken up and say, this is very important, right? We are lagging behind. Let's create this capital market union. So there is a push, and rightly so, one European capital market. So that's on the political side of things.

00:14:27: Matthias Voelkel: And then the window is also open because there is this new technology. Usually change happens if there is a disruptive technology. And the DLT technology is exactly that, right? It caters for an integrated market. It is the opposite of national silos. So using this technology and basically also using the tailwind of the political momentum makes us think this is now exactly the right time to do it.

00:14:47: Matthias Voelkel: And one other important thing you said, right? I think conceptually we're, we all get it, but in history and also in financial markets, there have been so many instances where the idea was right on paper, et cetera, but where people still did not jump on a technically optimal solution because there was no incentive, because it was too complicated, et cetera. And this is—I cannot stress that enough.

00:15:27: Matthias Voelkel: Seturion, as you rightly said, will connect to classic platforms and digital platforms. It'll connect to exchanges, to MTFs, but also OTC, bilateral trade. So it is completely open when it comes to who can connect to Seturion. Another thing is also that's the spirit of openness and really adding value for customers as opposed to be following an ideology when it comes to technology, right? We do public blockchain and private blockchain. We offer what our customers want, right? We are technologically agnostic and although we have a clear plan when it comes to which asset classes to roll out, it's also for all asset classes.

00:16:16: Matthias Voelkel: So it fits in completely nicely into the existing infrastructure or in existing market structure, if you will. It's not a thing where a bank which participates, a custody bank, a broker, an order flow provider, whatever, needs to embark on a long technology journey. It's exactly the opposite. You can just connect to it using the existing rails.

00:16:42: Matthias Voelkel: And one other important thing you said, we are not building just another vertical silo, right? Where you say you need to commit to our digital exchange and otherwise you cannot use Seturion. Seturion will be connected to all platforms across Europe, which makes it on one hand very innovative and on the other hand, easy to digest.

00:17:03: Matthias Voelkel: Mm-hmm.

00:17:04: Lidia: Let's maybe hear a bit of a break in the sense like, let's deep dive quickly a bit on the operating model of Seturion and see what actually are the services that Seturion is offering, and also for the listeners to understand the different levels of where Seturion plays a part and where it just connects.

00:17:19: Lidia: And maybe going to a start, and please add as well. So Seturion as a core is really a settlement platform, meaning we settle assets versus cash after a trade has happened. Now that's where we partly use the blockchain. So the asset is on the blockchain. That's why we talk about the asset being tokenized.

00:17:39: Lidia: So the asset being on the blockchain, the asset is being exchanged against cash. We are actually integrating into different cash solutions. So we are using central bank rails, so fiat, euro cash, we are integrating into TARGET2, for those who know the payment systems in Europe very well.

00:17:56: Lidia: But we are also integrating into on-chain cash systems such as stablecoins, for example. So really to have the choice there in terms of which payment leg is being preferred by the participants. So that's the settlement part.

00:18:15: Lidia: Moving one step up, the trading part, that's actually the part we do not change. Trading remains as it is. It's not gonna go on the blockchain. We are actually at the Börse Stuttgart, which connects to Seturion, or also our Swiss trading venue BX Digital, which connects to Seturion. They are keeping the trading systems they have in the traditional world off-chain. Nothing changes.

00:18:33: Lidia: And the very important thing there, I think, to emphasize is that the trading participants then also don't have to change anything. They keep their existing connections, their existing fixed lines that they have. That doesn't change.

00:18:52: Lidia: And as a last point maybe, and then happy to hand over to you as well, to add a bit, is on the issuance side. So to create a product there, Seturion will also have an offering that you can create this newly tokenized product through Seturion, but it's really an optional service in the sense that you can also use your own solutions or other industry solutions. So this open ecosystem approach is also seen in this detailed operating model, where we allow others to participate, but we obviously connect as first users as Börse Stuttgart Group.

00:19:18: Matthias Voelkel: Actually totally. We eat our own dog food, if you will, on your first point. Absolutely spot on. Ideally, and this is sort of the long-term target picture, if you will, not only the security leg, but also the cash leg will be digital. Wholesale CBDC, the digital euro, stablecoins, we already offer that, right? But this is not a must right now. A lot of players just prefer settlement against euros, right? And we want to offer our customers what they want, right? We don't want to lecture them and teach them, right? We want to offer them what they want right now, and we want to be also their partner for the future, where at some point in time they'll switch to digital settlement.

00:20:09: Matthias Voelkel: So this is very important. The second point, as you said, connecting the different platforms. You made this very good point and we spoke about it like: which problem are we actually solving? And there is not necessarily a big problem when it comes to trading. I mean, it works, right? And sometimes blockchain could be even a step backwards because it might take longer, et cetera. So why change? So trading, which works pretty well on many platforms, we will not touch.

00:20:34: Matthias Voelkel: So you can use, as you rightly said, your existing trading platforms and we will connect. Our trading platforms, the traditional ones, and also the digital ones. But it's not only us. We do not want to have our own little ecosystem, right? We want to be a settlement layer for the entire European capital market means every platform can connect. This is a very, very important point, so you don't need to commit to, okay, I switched to digital.

00:20:56: Matthias Voelkel: When you are in trading, when you are in customer service, when you have—as a broker—you have customers, you have an issuer of structured products or so, there's not too many things you need to change because again, we are not idealistic, right, and we also don't follow an ideology. We are providing a solution, which you rightly described, bringing down cost, more liquidity or fast liquidity, all of these things, without asking our customers to completely turn the world upside down. This is very, very important.

00:21:41: Lidia: Maybe as a last point on that as well, which you haven't mentioned yet, that when those traditional exchanges connect, they can actually keep the licenses that they have. They cannot just only keep their technology, they can also keep their licenses. So with the traditional MTF license, simply by connecting to Seturion, they will be able to trade tokenized assets. So because the system simply is trading and they wouldn't need to change the regulatory framework either. So I think that's a very powerful sign also to the markets that we can make the entire market ready for the future, ready for the new technical rails, simply by one connection.

00:22:16: Matthias Voelkel: By one connection. And also, don't ask me, okay, if you want to play with us, you need to get a license. I mean, this is not how it works, right?

00:22:26: Matthias Voelkel: I know that some people in the market think that way, but that's not how it works. We have a very customer centric approach, so we want to ensure that customers, and you mentioned trading venues, MTFs, banks, RFPs, brokers, issuers, basically all players, custody banks, right? We want to give them the opportunity to massively bring down their settlement cost, right? Increase availability while on the other hand not embarking on this cumbersome investment, licensing, et cetera, journey. I mean, we want to keep the hurdles low.

00:22:52: Matthias Voelkel: First thing. And second thing, again, we are open-minded. We are open architecture. This is a system which is not only for us in our little world, right. It is a European system and offering to all European market participants. Yeah.

00:23:20: Lidia: Now looking at what we are doing as also as opposed to what maybe others are doing, do you see some USPs why Börse Stuttgart Group is in a unique position to actually do what we are doing?

00:23:34: Matthias Voelkel: I mean, it's, as Europeans, right, we tend to be moderate when it comes to bragging. So I'll try some humble bragging. No, I think why have we embarked on this journey and why do I personally believe we are the right ones, together with our partners, right, to come up with this offering.

00:23:43: Matthias Voelkel: First of all, I mean, we are reliable. We look back on 160 years of history, right? I would not underestimate this factor, right? We've been around for more than 160 years. We want to be around for at least another 160 years, right? So that means we manage risk, right? We do not go jump on crazy things.

00:24:08: Matthias Voelkel: First thing. Second thing, and you mentioned, I mean, I think we are very innovative as a group and you and your team, I mean, you are the perfect example for this innovation leadership.

00:24:29: Matthias Voelkel: Thirdly, let's call a spade a spade. We are number six when it comes to exchange groups in Europe, but we are not the big Goliath in the room, right? Where people say, ooh, they will build another monopoly. We have just 700 people. We have a history of working together with others. So I think market participants do not have to have the fear, right, that we create another closed system, which is very important.

00:24:52: Matthias Voelkel: Then our approach to open architecture, I think we are very open-minded and we basically want to do the right thing. We want to offer the right thing and the mixture between say this tradition of being regulated, of being on the other hand very innovative, of being big enough and experienced enough and capable enough without necessarily dominating, and our open spirit where we believe there's a lot of value we can create.

00:25:17: Matthias Voelkel: This is a big cake, if you will, right. And we are happy for all market participants to, excuse the image, to put their spoons into the cake as well.

00:25:52: Lidia: I think very interesting. And I'll add some bit of a bragging then. Also maybe I—no bragging.

00:25:58: Matthias Voelkel: Humble bragging.

00:25:59: Lidia: I'll try. But what I think is you're saying we are the sixth largest exchange group in Europe. What we are, in fact, as well is the largest exchange group in Europe without the CSD. So I think we are in a very optimal position of disrupting that market because we are seen as neutral being an exchange group. We have market connections. So our trading participants currently are the largest banking groups worldwide.

00:26:15: Lidia: But at the same time, we can disrupt because we don't have an existing post-trade business, which is on the line through technology, we can really think it from scratch and think new and that's in my opinion also looking at the other offerings in the market. If you see what the CSDs are doing, and they obviously are in that market very active as well. If you look at other projects in the market, it's often about taking the status quo and bringing it just on new rails, but really thinking about how do we need to change the status quo in order to have an improved system, maybe with reduced amount of participants involved or with higher efficiency, reduced costs for the market participants.

00:27:09: Lidia: I think that's only something that someone can do, which is not disrupting himself. Is that something you'd support?

00:27:16: Matthias Voelkel: I mean, of course what you're saying is basically it's not a bug, it's a feature, right? And I think it's fair to say if you are not in the risk of cannibalizing yourself, right, then you can probably think more openly about things. I think that's a fair point.

00:27:38: Matthias Voelkel: I mean, CSD business is a great business, right? I mean it's—and it's added a lot of value, stability, et cetera, to European capital market. I mean, let's be—it's a stable system and all that, right? We don't have a CSD. You're right. And probably that puts us in a position to think more freely about it.

00:28:01: Matthias Voelkel: And we've shown it with our digital or crypto business we've shown we can do it. I mean, on the digital or crypto side of things, we have built the largest crypto business, so it's not only talk and being good on panels and writing white papers and all of these things. I think we've proven that we can build and scale an innovative business, and we want to do this here again, where it is, in contrast to the digital business, where it is much more about building future architecture or market infrastructure and doing it jointly with partners and also, as you say, right, our strategic portfolio, our portfolio of business allows us to do it jointly with others. And we leverage this flexibility. Yeah.

00:29:01: Lidia: When we look a bit at the structure of how capital markets in the future could look like, do you see a shift in the roles? Who is taking over which activity or do you think that stays as it is today?

00:29:12: Matthias Voelkel: I mean, capital market infrastructure has grown over the years and it's also a system in terms of stability or so that works well, right? It is too costly, right? It's too fragmented. It is too costly. Clearly, there are very important functions in capital markets infrastructure, which are, for instance, performed by CCPs.

00:29:25: Matthias Voelkel: Think of what happened after the financial crisis, right? Where CCPs were basically the circuit breakers, right? An extremely important role for stability, risk management. At the end of the day, the stability of the entire financial system. So these roles will not go away.

00:29:43: Matthias Voelkel: Having said that, if you look at all the participants in market infrastructure, when it comes to post-trade, in the wider sense, it's a lot. It's a zoo, right? You would never, if you designed it from scratch, come up with such a system and there what will happen with this new technology, banks will have their own wallets. Right. I mean, it's already happening.

00:30:02: Matthias Voelkel: Market participants want a reliable solution when it comes to settlement. This is something we offer. Do they necessarily want to involve all the players which are on there? I don't think so. Having said that, there are very important roles traditional players, custody banks, et cetera, will continue to perform. Actually, the role might be even getting bigger. We're talking about corporate actions, reporting, tax, all of these things.

00:30:26: Matthias Voelkel: These things will not go away due to technology because it is also the result or an effect of regulation. What will go away is this vertical structure, this costly vertical structure. It'll move into a more horizontal, more European, more decentral, enhanced, efficient structure. While, as I said, the role of CCPs, for instance, that's not the topic of the conversation in the narrow sense, but you ask for the future of market infrastructure globally, where certain market participants will keep their roles or maybe like CCPs get even more important.

00:31:24: Lidia: Now when we look a bit at the timeline and how we developed the infrastructure we are developing, we were saying in the beginning that we have been working on that for the last three, four years. So we developed an infrastructure. We are technically speaking quite far ahead already. We are already gonna go live in Switzerland with the settlement platform Seturion on our digital exchange BX Digital.

00:31:44: Lidia: You received the license beginning of 2025 and are preparing go live there. How important is this first step in Switzerland with BX Digital.

00:31:55: Matthias Voelkel: Yeah. I mean, first of all, also, again, kudos to you, to all of its colleagues. I mean, what you've been building in a very entrepreneurial way while being extremely compliant, right, and extremely professional is really amazing.

00:32:11: Matthias Voelkel: BX Digital, that's our digital exchange, right? BX Digital will be one of many platforms to connect to Seturion, right, as what we said earlier, right? This is an open architecture, it's an open platform. All platforms, digital and classic, all market participants can connect.

00:32:33: Matthias Voelkel: Having said that, of course, there's also value in a digital exchange, right? You can come up with digital products. We are very happy. And you mentioned it's also service to issue digital products. And some products will be digital or are already digital, talking about money market funds, talking about private credit, talking about bonds, that's getting there.

00:32:49: Matthias Voelkel: So we also have this offering on this end. So this is very important, but you don't need to do it on BX Digital to use Seturion, right. So BX Digital is one platform to connect to Seturion, one platform where we offer the full Monty, right? You can do everything, issue, et cetera. Trade tokenized assets, very important, but this is not the only one, and particularly it is not necessary to connect to BX Digital.

00:33:18: Matthias Voelkel: The beauty of Seturion is not another silo, not another small thing, but open architecture, European, all platforms.

00:33:26: Lidia: That's exactly what we are working now on to have ready for the European context as well. Regulatory speaking, but also technically speaking. So the last technical work is being done there, regulatory wise as well. License application process is currently being done. So we expect roughly a potential go live towards the end of 2026 with the European Seturion platform.

00:33:56: Lidia: Now, when we look a bit more into the future, let's assume Seturion is live across Europe. We have multiple trading venues that are connected. So how do you think could the capital markets in five or 10 years look like with having Seturion live and multiple trading venues connecting?

00:34:04: Matthias Voelkel: It'll be more decentral. It'll be simpler. It'll be European. There will be maybe a number of offerings, right? Competing for the best, but not monopolies anymore. And also not a zoo of many small players, but a small number of players offering the service.

00:34:19: Matthias Voelkel: I'm convinced that we will be not only one of them, but ideally also the leading one. What will remain in terms of market infrastructure is the very important roles a number of players are performing. I mentioned custody banks, right? The role will grow. I mentioned CCPs, again, not so relevant here, but for futures, options, energy, extremely important, extremely important. And these things will stay because they ensure the stability of the capital market. So in 10 years, capital market infrastructure will be as stable as it is right now, but it'll be more digital. It'll be European and it'll be much more efficient.

00:35:10: Lidia: And maybe as a last question, if you speak not that much as a CEO of the Börse Stuttgart Group wanting to have this project live, but rather as a European investor who deserves better, to take that slogan, what would be like one wish. If you look in the future and say, I wish that changes, then we are all gonna have a better investor landscape.

00:35:33: Matthias Voelkel: I think what we talked about: if we move from where we are now to what we described in 10 years time, and it's a big wish, but I think it's a realistic wish. And then European investors deserve better. For those who don't know our group inside out, that's our ambition, right? We want to ensure that European investors get better service, better prices, more access to product, right? This is why we get up in the morning.

00:35:45: Matthias Voelkel: And if this is, in short, this highly professional, digital, truly European, connected, by the way, I mean, Europe is not an island either, right, with other parts of the world. If we get from where we are now, which is not good, to what we describe will be the case in 10 years time, I think this is a wish. It's a big wish and I think it's not an unrealistic one.

00:36:28: Lidia: Thanks a lot, Matthias. It's amazing to hear. It's amazing to work together with the Börse Stuttgart Group team and with you specifically. And so thank you also for the support on that side.

00:36:35: Lidia: What we are trying to do with this podcast Inside Digital Assets is actually not only us speaking, so let others come towards, or let others have a say in that as well. You were saying very well that we are doing that together with partners and those partners and also others from the industry are going to join us in this podcast, are talking with us together about what they think digital assets will bring to the capital markets, how the future of our financial markets will look like.

00:37:08: Lidia: So stay tuned. Look whenever there is a new podcast coming out, I'm very happy to rewelcome you as a listener. Thank you, Matthias, for being here.

00:37:18: Matthias Voelkel: Thank you very much.

00:37:20: Lidia: This was Inside Digital Assets, a joint project by BX Digital and Seturion. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast and feel free to share with others.